Choijamts
Basic information
Interviewee ID: 990901
Name: Choijamts
Parent's name: [blank]
Ovog: [blank]
Sex: m
Year of Birth: 1928
Ethnicity: [unknown]
Additional Information
Education: [unknown]
Notes on education:
Work:
Belief:
Born in: Tüdevtei sum, Zavhan aimag
Lives in: sum (or part of UB), Ulaanbaatar aimag
Mother's profession:
Father's profession:
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Translation:
Byambajav -
Would you tell me about your life in detail since
you had moved to the city?
Choijamts -
At the end of 1939, in mid November I moved to
Ulaanbaatar to reside. Leaving your birthplace, home, and
herds for a distant place makes one feel a lot (sigh). Since
I arrived Ulaanbaatar I have been homesick, felt down…
occasionally I cried because of missing my home, birthplace,
and cattle I herded. Even now I miss my birthplace, summer,
spring, fall and winter places. I see clearly those places
where I collected mushrooms, berries, gums and meheer (a
kind of plant, D.N.) etc.
In that way I have become an Ulaanbaatar citizen.
I’d talk about my parents now. My father’s name is
Baljinnyam- an ordinary rural herder. He read Mongolian and
Tibetan and wrote in them. He was a herder and a Mongol like
any other religious, rural, Mongolian people. My mother is
the same-a rural herder… a very generous Mongolian woman,
who took care of her children and parents. I am one of her
ten children. Only three of them are alive now. All the rest
passed away. My parents also died. Because they paid a lot
of attention to our bringing-up, development, and teaching
in rights and wrongs we live like any other ordinary
Mongols, Mongolian people, yet not rich and peacefully, and
are able to separate rights from wrongs. These are results
of their teaching (sigh).
In 1943…. no in September of 1930, 40 I went to the
primary school 10 in Ulaanbaatar. My parents had a small ger
in the bank compound. My aunt was neighboring. Because I did
know old script and elementary math I moved to the second
grade after while. Our teacher was a woman-Mijidmaa. She is
originally from Selenge aimag. She spoke well and wrote
distinctively. She did a lot and made efforts in teaching,
getting us literate, and educating us… she was regarded as a
tough teacher. Was tough because she, having pure, great
heart like milk, wanted us to be good and educated people. I
have been thinking about her toughness.
My school was established with two classes-the first
and the second, 4 teachers and a director. When I graduated
from the school in 1943 it had... 6 classes,… about 20
teachers. A new building was built and developed. In 1943 I
graduated from my school I was assigned to the teachers’
school. At that time a decree of the Ministries of the
Mongolian People’s Republic (MPR) was issued and the school
of Officers was established to launch its classes in
September 1943. I’d decided to study there. I did not go
Teachers’ school and was registered as a student of the
school of Officers. On 23 August, 1942 I went to the School
of Officers. That school was situated in recent-time Gandan,
aa…. there is the Construction College now. There was a
two-story building on its right and there were two-story and
four-story pinkish buildings on its left. Its director was
Colonel Erdenedamba. I was registered there and get
accommodated. That day I went to soldiers’ bath, received a
uniform. My old clothes were collected. That day (voice
raised) was the turning point of my life and I became an
army person. Between 1943 to 1949 or during the six years
spent in the school of Officers, in terms of education I got
10-years education, and in terms of army education I got
average education…. Studied the programme. Programmes were
many …so were books and notes. According to them preparation
for fire, parade training and the first and second tests of
battles took place. Many classes such as military unit’s
regulation, discipline rule, parade rule, internal service
rule, as well as tactics of various arms, geography,
military engineering, army zoology, army medicine, cavalry
and general education took place…. Was tough. Besides these
as other army personnel in the winter, summer, fall and
spring time we went to field trainings with other military
units. During that time in summer and winter we were left in
places where… no resident, aaa…no dwelling. There were
commands ‘build an accommodation, dig trenches, and channels
and get the dwelling’ rather than ‘there are trees’, ‘use
this’… Nothing was available. We built our accommodation
digging land, trenches and dugouts. We did in that way…and
lived. Studied and went to the field. These were the ways of
teaching and disciplining of that-time teachers and officers
to get us learned and overcome difficulties. The school and
all these things determined us who we would be, what to do,
and how to behave. In other words, 6 years of schooling in
the school of Officers’ or 10 years in army made us men. At
the start the school of Officers had 30 to 40 officers and
teachers including 11 teachers, course head, platoon
commander and the director. Among them my …My teachers were
Ochir, Batdorj, Sereeter, Jamsran, Dagzmaa, Damba, and the
teacher of the Russian language -Ramanav. Dashdondog,
Banzragch, Tomorbaatar were there. Those were our teachers.
The number of students had been increasing and by winter of
1949 it reached 1,500. The number of teachers was around 60.
The number of officers was approximately 70 to 80. The
school became larger and had in total of 130, 140 to 150
officers. The first director of the school was Dagdan. The
headquarters’ chief was Zandraa. There was Colonel Sandagaa,
and the head of the state section was renowned commissar
Dash. Course head was first, Sharavdorj, army’s aaa… Garmaa,
Duinkhorjav, aaa…Samdan. Baymbajav and many others. The head
of the hospital was Colonel Dugar, and the medical attendant
was Monkhoo, a graduate from Leningrad Feldsher (medical
attendant, D.N.) school. Later our Colonel Dugar had become
the Minister of the Health. Well, during these 6 school
years I felt hot and cold and sometimes hunger and
tiredness, which we benefited from later. It was a school
for raising me as a human.
In 1949 we-50 people graduated from the school of
Officers. Some of them were sent to the zoology faculty of
the University, some of them were trained for oversees
schools-schools of tank, air forces, artillery and cavalry
in the Soviet Union. 2 went to the school of tank (armour,
D.N), one went to the school of air forces, and ten more
stayed here. They were trained internally: the first pilots
were trained in Mongolia in…1950, 51, …in 1949, 50, 51. That
was it. Training took place in 1950, 52. In fall of 1952
Choibal aa…. I was posted to the 5th division of Dornod
aimag. I worked there for a year, and moved to the technical
platoon of the 5th division. Dornod service was a big place.
It was disbanded, and there was a technical section- auto
management with 30 to 40 technical machines affiliated to
the 5th division. After I worked there for a year I took
Janjin’s exam on 27 May, 1953, and that night I was
demobilized from the army by the first demobilization. I
demobilized on 29 May from Dornod 5th division, and moved to
Ulaanbaatar. I had not been at my home for ten years. I came
back home after being away for 10 years. At that time my
father Baljinnyam passed away. My mother lived with my
siblings. My brother, born after me, had gone to the Soviet
Union to study. In this situation I had no right to talk
about my further studying. I had to take care of my mother
and my sisters and brothers. Therefore, I worked in fall of
195..4, 50... in fall 53, in fall 1954, in 1953 and 1954.
There was so called Bank of Commerce and Industry, the
corporate bank. I was a bank counter, later … a cashier, and
had a job in the cash section. I worked as a general cashier
for the Bank of Commerce and Industry, and a vice-director
of the cash section. When my brother came back home as a
graduate I had to go to school. In 1955 I took an exam. It
was pre-naadam time. I had not left my job yet. I took the
exam and passed it. For a balance the cash from the section
of Yarmag bank should be sent to the central bank of the
city. When I came back after transferring the cash I had a
car accident. I was injured seriously. I went to doctor
Sukhbaatar in Surgery hospital, and he stitched injures and
treated me. I was not hospitalized. Then I could not go
home, because my siblings were in a summer camp, the bank
camp. I stayed in my acquaintance’s home for a couple of
days, and when I felt better I went home. Meanwhile naadam
had finished. I returned to my job, walking on crutches.
Then I was requested to go through the Health commission by
the human resource of the Central Bureau….the human resource
of the city (voice raised). I went through this commission.
I had hypertension. Nonetheless, I determined to go school
that year. There was no choice. I should go because it was
1955, and 6 years had passed since I graduated from Tovchoo
school. If I would not go it would have been too late,
considering my age. Would be too late. Secondly, I was
worrying about that I would forget all what I learnt at the
School of Officers. Thus, I was keen to go to school in
1955. I needed schooling. In a couple of days I went again
through the medical commission. By that time my blood
pressure had been normalized. Then I went to see Samdan, the
head of the human resource …the secretary of the Central
Bureau. He asked me what school I wanted to enter in. I said
that I would like to go to a school where demands are high
and where I can acquire a lot. He said, “If so, go to Moscow
Institute of Economics under the name of the Ministry of
Industry”. The appointment letter was issued under the name
of the Ministry of Industry. Then I went to my workplace. I
explained that I would like to leave my job because this and
that happened and because I decided to go to school. That
time the head of Mongol Bank was Baljid, a nice person.
Adding to that, as mentioned earlier, there was a two
countries’ corporate bank- the Bank of Commerce and
Industry. In 19…55, …54…1954 this bank did not exist as the
bilateral corporate bank, instead the Bank of Commerce and
Industry of the Mongolian People’s Republic was established.
Our country had its first bank named Mongol Bank in 1954.
The order on resignation was issued in 19…. I supposed to
pass on my job during 10 days, between 15 and 24 August,
1954. Otherwise, I could have not arranged my things. I
supposed to go on 24, 26 August. Before that I had to manage
to shift my job. According to the bank regulation I had to
pass on my job within a month. I was responsible for all
kinds of currencies-the old and new, circulated in the
country at that time; jewels, kept in the bank; gold and
silver; foreign currencies; pricey things….swords of
generals, and bonds. Within a month I should calculate,
weigh and count and forward all these things.
I told them that I with people from registration
commission would do it in 10 days and nights. There was no
other way because I was going on 26 August. We agreed on it.
From the state bank there were Dashjamts, the head of the
transfer section, and Tsevelmaa senior accountant woman of
the transfer section. In addition, there were Damchaajamts,
a member of the general bureau, Budsuren, senior accountant
of the state bank and so on. Representatives from the
Internal affairs and the Council of Ministries were also
obliged to present there. The work was completed on time.
The work was finished and signed at 10 a.m. on 24 August.
There was a call from the Ministry of Industry . I
was questioned why I, a designated person, had not provided
the passport, CV, and why I had not got the payment for
expenses. I went there and gave 15 tugriks to get passport
and photos. I was told that I would go at 14.00 on 26
August, and by that time I should arrange all things. Some
of colleagues were also going to school and they were ready
for it. All they had already left their job, managed to do
things and got their payment. I had got neither my passport
nor payment. On 24 August I got my payment from the Ministry
of Industry, and came back to my work, completed my job and
signed it. According to an order of the general bureau of
the state bank I received a grant of a month salary and
vacation payment. My salary was 485 tugriks, which is a lot
of money at that time. I used free electricity and ger.
Water supply and fair wood also were free. These were norms.
I left my job and went to see Baljid, the bank head. He
asked whether I had prepared or bought anything. I said no.
He said, ‘Let’s go. I have to help you’. He said it,
probably considering that he was a friend of my uncle, who
had worked for the bank before I entered. I worked for
Mongol Bank satisfactorily, not bad, well. Baljid darga
(head in Mongolian, D.N) got in his car and we headed to
18th store, the store for Ministries. The ministries had
access to this store. Baljid guay said to shop assistants, “
He is our employee and is going to school. All other people
had left their job and prepared things. He had nothing,
although he is going on 26 August. Would you help him to
find appropriate clothes?’. I had obtained 2,500 T as
payment for clothes. I bought 3 good suits, 3 pairs of
shoes, a coat, a winter cap, and underwear, etc. I had no
suitcase to put them in. Then I bought 6m. cotton materials
and got a kit-bag made there and put my thing in. I also got
butter, sausages, canned food, fried cookies, and put them
in another kit-bag. All these things were lifted by the
head’s car. In that evening I came home in Bagatenger, by
employees’ bus. I informed my mother that I would go in the
morning of the 26th and that I had prepared my things. My
poor mother was disturbed. Next day my siblings went
somewhere in Bagatenger and collected berries, out of which
my mother made me gem. My brother came back and worked as a
pioneering expert of industrial goods for the Central
Association of Corporations, named as Tovarer. Return of my
brother provided me a big opportunity and made me easy. I
was determined. In the morning, around 10 a.m. on August 26
I came to my workplace. I brought there desiccated and some
boiled meat, prepared by my mom for my journey.
I came to train station after I had lunch in a
family lived in the bank compound: I could not manage to do
it at home. Baljid darga, Dayanjamts, the head of the
transfer section, Siilegmaa guay, Tserendolgor, the head of
the cash section, … and some Russian professionals from the
bank came to the train station to see me off. The station
was full of people, and there was the army music band.
Interesting thing was that it played the hymn of the MPR,
when the train had just departed. I was moved when we were
seen off with the hymn of the MPR. It was the ceremony
wishing us success in learning in faraway place, and
returning home country as decent people. Well, we left on 26
August. It took a week to get Moscow from Ulaanbaatar. There
were transfers in Naushk, Ulaan-Ud, and Irkutsk. In 7 days
we arrived at Moscow. When we arrived Moscow, Embassy
secretaries, responsible for education, officials from the
Revolutionary Youth Union, Embassy secretaries, and
consultants met us at Yaroslav train station. They took all
of us to the Moscow Institute of Food. In two days
representatives of each school came there and took us to
respective schools. On 7 August, no, on 7 July, I arrived at
the Moscow Institute of Economics. The institute director
and faculty head met us and gave us advices. That day we
took classes. The funny thing, not funny, may be interesting
thing was that the first time I saw so many girls because I
had not worked closely with many girls and women. When I
first entered a lecture hall, it was full of girls and young
ladies. The hall was spacious. The lecture on ‘Gorman deli’
was taught. I thought that I had to have a seat in the last
row and was going there. Then a lady with brownish or black
hair in the first row invited me to sit next to her. I had a
seat there. That lady was a Polish. I had classes that day,
but my Russian was not good. I had prepared for classes: had
notebooks, a pen and pencils. In these ways, on 7 September
I became a student of Moscow State Institute of Economics.
Since then I had always had a seat next to the Polish lady.
She became an emigrant when Poland was occupied by Germany
in 1939 for two reasons: first, her father was a Jewish and
second, he was a communist. It was dangerous to stay in
Poland for Jewish people and communists. Since 1939 the poor
lady went to Italy and lived there for 2 or 3 years. Because
Italy had fascist regime staying long in the country was
also dangerous. From there she moved to France, then to
England because France was also occupied by fascist Germany.
She lived in England for quite long time-until 19…50,1, 52
and came back to her country in 1952. In 1955 she graduated
from high school in Warsaw and came to Moscow to study at
our Institute… The director of the institute was Buzulukov.
The faculty head was Spovalov. Among our teachers…well,
there were renowned economists of that time- Strumelin,
Iken, Kaminetser, Burkhovsky,…well, that general Shafiev;
well-known Russian scholars and doctors-teachers taught us.
They had very interesting methods of teaching and
upbringing. They requested us to read books and to make
notes. During the exam they made us ashamed. They said,
“three questions on the sheet are not enough. You are good
at these questions”. Then they probed us through additional
queries, formulas, and additional questions. Thinking back,
taking an exam and obtaining a grade took around 40 minutes
of investigation and queries. Ordinary or senior teachers
had no rights to take exams, only candidates of science and
doctors took exams. I do not remember how I took my
first-year exams, how the first year came to end, how I
answered, and what I wrote. Was so embarrassed. After the
completion of the first year my Russian had improved. My
classmates helped me a lot to prepare exam questions. I also
tried my best. My Russian was better at the end of the first
grade. In that way I studied at the Moscow Institute of
Economics for 5 years and defended my diploma work
excellently. Well, I had three at some exams from previous
years. I got three for economic geography. Three was given
at this exam. That grade is on my diploma now. I would like
to say one interesting thing here. It was said in my diploma
that… chemical materials were regarded cheap. .. Chemical
materials, artificial thread were broadly used particularly
in textile factories. Economists of that time believed that
these materials are cheap. First time during my diploma
defense, I said that these materials were not cheap and the
cost had been higher than the natural wool. Having said that
I faced critics of my teachers.
After the diploma defense I obtained my diploma with
specialization in engineer-economist of light industry. I
had specialization in engineer-economist of textile
industry. After the graduation I worked not only for a
textile factory but for textile factories across Mongolia.
Byambajav -
You told me very interesting story. Would you tell
me in detail about your impression on the city when you
first arrived it from rural area?
Choijamts -
In 1939 we arrived in Ulaanbaatar through Shariin
hővőő. It was about 8 o’clock in the evening.
That time UB was such a flashing place, as if
many candles were lightening. It was such a glittering city.
I was wondering what was there. Then I asked adults sitting
next to me ‘Why there are so many lights?’ They told me that
there were many lamps in Ulaanbaatar streets and they were
lightening. We reached a bank yard in Ulaanbaatar around 9
or 10 o’clock. I arrived in Ulaanbaatar and met my father,
mother, brothers and sisters. When entered in the ger it was
full of light: there was great light behind the round glass.
Well, I arrived in bright warm place and slept. That night I
couldn’t sleep well because of noise “chag, chag chag”. We
got up in early morning as usual rural children. I went to a
latrine, which I supposed to use. Coming back I was lost in
this yard because there were many gers. A prolonged song was
heard when I passed a ger. Seemingly, a party was taking
place. I thought Ulaanbaatar was strange, having party in
the morning. I opened a door but there were an elderly man
and woman. They asked me who I was, where I came from. I
said that I was lost and introduced the family I came from.
I suddenly saw a round, a black stuff- redocutor, producing
the song. It was a radio. It was the first time I saw a
radio and realized that it transmits those things. That
woman guided us home. Afterward I became an Ulaanbaatar
citizen. I had no idea about a city. Thus, Ulaanbaatar
seemed to me as an enormous city. There were a very few,
handful two- or three-story buildings: the Ministry of
Internal affairs, the bank, the 4-storey building of the
high school No1, the 3-storey residence building for the
staff of the Ministry of Internal affairs, Lenin club, the
government building on its left, the current Pedagogical
Institute, the former Ministry of Militaries or the current
Ministry of Agriculture, 3 to 4 residence buildings for the
staff of the Ministry of Agriculture on the left, to the
left the hospital, the general military school, the Russian
embassy, the embassy of USSR, residences for Ulaan huaran
military units…in total of 30-40 buildings. City households
were dwelled in felt gers, had fences made of cut-down
trees. Paved roads did not exist. There was so-called
hemi-spherical green theater, situated in the place of the
current government building. In its front there was a squire
where parades, ceremonial meetings, naadam took place.
Streets were skewed, muddy, …full of water and mud. The
construction work had started in Ulaanbaatar in 1954. There
is no comparison between Ulaanbaatar of 1939, the year I
came, and current Ulaanbaatar. It has changed so much. It
has changed so much that there is nothing left reminding you
Ulaanbaatar of 1939 and 1940. Thanks to the assistance of
USSR and great work and commitment of our constructors and
laborers.
Ulaanbaatar had changed that much. Many buildings,
new residence and office buildings have been built,
Ulaanbaatar street and squires have been paved, and the
ceremonial squire has become nice. In addition, it is full
of buses now, and there are many taxis. In 1939 there were
only two bus lines: Amgalanbaatar and Ulaankhuaran. Chinese
carts provided transportation: lifted workers to
Ulaankhuaran, Amgalan and the Industrial kombinat for 3
tugriks. Chinese horse carts served as public
transportation. Only two buses run. The bus ticket was 10 to
15 mőngő. Well, I told you that how current city has emerged
from that city. The difference is like the difference
between day and night. Nowadays young people are not aware
of Ulaanbaatar of 1939 and 1940. May be they will tell you
that is not true if you show them a movie about Ulaanbaatar
of that time. Some of them neglect things even they are
aware of them. Let them think in their own way. Generallly,
Ulaanbaatar has changed. Nothing was in Yarmag. The Meat
processing factory was established in 1942 with the
assistance of Soviets. It was 14 km. away from Ulaanbaatar
and there was nothing in between. Those many building in
Tolgoit, in front of the Meat processing factory did not
exist. There was empty space. Nothing existed between the
train station and the Sonsgolon bridge. Amgalan was apart
from Ulaanbaatar. It was distant place in the left part. In
the north there were neither Khandgait nor summer camps.
People used to live in their summer houses at the northern
edge of Tuul river. Nothing was nearby Zaisan, Ikh Tenger,
Baga Tenger and Khurel Togoot. There was a train road
between Nalaikh and Ulaanbaatar but it was small. There is a
car at the train station now. It, running for 37 km.,
supplied the first power station with coals. Coals were
delivered twice or trice a day. Ulaankhuaran was a distant
place. Ulaanbaatar was like that. But current Ulaanbaatar is
so big. Full town has emerged between Buyant-ukhaa and the
former military airdrome. In addition there are Bagakhangai,
Baganuur, Partisan collective farm have become Ulaanbaatar
satellites. That time there were no signs of these towns and
districts. That is it.
Byambajav -
When you arrived in Ulaanbaatar was there government
building? Where was it?
Choijamts -
In 1939, when I came to Ulaanbaatar, there was a
government house. Government house. It was in what’s now
Pedagogical Institute. The building of … um … Pedagogical
Institute … in the building of today’s Pedagogical
Institute. At that time, the government house building had
the one-storied north wing, the 3-storied south wing, and
the 2-storied east wing, and from then on pedagogical …
pedagogical institute expanded the east of the pedagogical
institute, that 2-storied yellow building. And there was the
government house in the building of today’s … Pedagogical
Institute, University of Education, University of education
building. Marshall Choibalsan used to work there. Also
Tsedenbal used to work there. And the Party’s Central
Committee was there and Tsedenbal was there. Two different
offices were located there. …
Byambajav -
So when was this grey house (government house)
built?
Choijamts -
The grey house, the new government house building
was principally finalized in 1952. When Marshall Choibalsan
passed away in 1952, his body was placed in the congress
hall and ceremony was held there, and most of the government
house … was completed; half of the building was occupied
with government offices and the rest was under decoration.
In 1952, the construction was almost completed. The
mausoleum was in 1952, when Choibalsan, Marshall Choibalsan
passed away, this mausoleum was built during the harsh
winter, the cold of February, it was around Tsagaan Sar …
was first built, then Marshall Choibalsan was placed there.
And the government house was expanded later. The north wing,
the north was sealed off , expanded, west side, south side,
east side fourth store was constructed under military
(51:37) construction engineer Demchigsuren’s command the
expansion was completed. And the present building stayed the
same since then. And at that time the Government and the
Party Central Committee, Planning Committee, and … and also
um …inspection offices, state and public inspection
commission, the party inspection commission, all those
bodies were seated here in the government house. After
1990s, that centralization was reduced and such
organizations as public inspection commission, planning
committee, and reserve commission, were pulled out from the
building and provided with their own offices and only the
government and the party central committee seated in the
building. This is history of the government house.
Byambajav -
You mentioned that when you first came to the city,
there were no paved roads. So when were the central street
and the west crossroads built?
Choijamts -
When I first came to Ulaanbaatar, there was only one
road from the west crossroads to the Central Union of firms.
That was the paved road. The others were all dirt roads.
Roads, the beginning of road construction, to build roads,
the first expansion of roads, and the increase of road
length began in 1954. According to the present terms, the
road renovation. Then later … with the aid from PRC, with
the help of Chinese workers, in 1954, in 1955 our country
used to receive Chinese workers. Chinese workers were used
in the restoration, no, in the development (of the country).
They Nalaikh railroad, paved road to Nalaikh, and to the
west … 22 and further and … with the aid from the Soviet
Union, the Altanbulag and Ulaanbaatar railroad, no, paved
road was built with the aid from the Soviet Union. And the
roads etc. until 30s 1937, 38, 1940s the roads were built in
this way. Only our people. And since 1954, the road and
bridges came into the spotlight. A paved road was built to
Ikh Tengeriin Am. A road was built to the airport. A road
was constructed to Baga Tengeriin Am. A road to Nalaikh was
built. (54: 58) and the main streets and squares within the
city started to be built since 1954.
Byambajav -
Where was the school … school No 10 you went first
to located? The …
Choijamts -
School No 10, school No 10 … was … Um to the west
there is Chingeltei district Governor’s office. On the right
of that building, there is Chingeltei district police
department. Primary school No 10 was right there where these
two buildings are today. There were only two classrooms in
one building, and the building was divided into two rooms
and 1st grade and 2nd grade were established. Then later in
1941 on the south a new building was built with 4
classrooms. That building was built in a very short period
of time. In 1941-42 enrollment (i.e. academic year),
children were accepted there. The two old classrooms were
kept. Besides that, when it became crowded, one, two old
wooden buildings in the courtyard. In one of the wooden
houses, there was a small cafeteria, and a club was located
in the other. A school club. At that time, we, the school
children were given about two hundred grams of bread, um …
twenty grams of butter, twenty grams of sugar, and one cup
of tea. Besides that, the schools at that time had uniforms.
A white fur hat, with ear flap, a fur deel covered with blue
cloth, white felt boots, a blue cloth bag, all the pioneers
had ties, and a kastyur made of metal. The uniform was like
this. … They were given every year, and the country was
taking care of the children, the future of the country,
paying a lot of attention to educate children. Now there is
no school that gives out free clothes, hats, bags and boots
and snacks. But we , we … I studied there for three years,
and during that three years I received 3 fur deels, white
fur hats, felt boots, and every day bread, butter (58: 48),
and tea for snacks. If we calculated, calculated the cost,
it would be thousands of tugrugs, all were given free. The
schools of that period, Ulaanbaatar Primary School No 4,
Primary School No 3, Primary School No 9, Primary School No
10, Ulaanbaatar had a few schools. Few schools. Regarding
secondary/middle schools, there was School No 2. There was
School No 1. And in the area of the airport, um … there were
… schools. They had gers, not buildings. Some of the schools
were in gers. A ger was a classroom. There were four, five
gers. There was a ger used as a teachers’ room where
teachers put their stuff. Schools of 1939, 40 didn’t have
multi-story buildings and gyms; they didn’t even have a gym.
Nowadays, schools have become very pleasant. There is a
possibility to educate, if they have a will. At that time,
we didn’t use to have textbooks and our teachers used their
lesson plans from teacher’s college to teach us. In a
classroom, there was a book titled “Golden readings.” If
there were two of them in a classroom, it was fabulous. If
there was geography book, it was a treasure. There were
things like nature study, botany, etc. If there was a
textbook on those, it would be luck. And there were no
textbooks on math, history, and so on, and our poor teacher
taught us (those subjects) using their notes from teacher’s
college and lesson plans prepared at teacher’s college.
There were no visual aids, so teachers wrote everything on
the blackboard. Homework assignments were also jotted on the
blackboard. If there were anything to write, they wrote them
on the blackboard. And calculation, teachers wrote on the
blackboard themselves and taught. “This is how this number
is written and this new letter is … written this way.”
Teacher wrote everything on the blackboard. There weren’t
textbooks. That was the situation (1:01:18) of schools.
Teachers, in order to make children literate, strived and
worked very hard. And when I think about the teachers of
that period, I have sympathy for then that they had a hard
task. …
Byambajav -
When you came, was there a Mongolian university? And
when was a university first established?
Choijamts -
When I came to Ulaanbaatar in 1939, there was no
Mongolian university. Maybe there were discussions to
establish a Mongolian school … a university in Mongolia
being held among high officials, government, or maybe at the
party central committee. And I guess it was 1943, if I’m not
mistaken, National University of Mongolia was established in
1943. But the NUM building was … built much more later. In
19 … 49, 50s the building of NUM was completed, maybe in
1949, the building of NUM was finished, and NUM came to this
location. Before that, the University was established in
1943, the classes were held at schools … secondary school
buildings, and other places like … cultural centres. And
like there was no place to say this was the University. In
1943, 44, no, late 40s and early 50s the new building was
built. And later Pedagogical Institute, the teacher’s
college turned into Pedagogical Institute, in other words,
all our universities branched out of NUM. Teacher’s college,
branched out from NUM, and Technical University branched …
separated from NUM. AI also branched out of NUM. and there
was Economic Institute. Late … for some period, it was
located at the party, party personnel institute and later …
this … became an independent institution. And … there was
Polytechnic Institute. That was what’s now TU. All of them
branched out of NUM. in other words, NUM is the first in our
country a parent of today’s public higher education
institutions.
Byambajav -
As you know the city since 1939, what kind of people
lived in the area between the Geser temple and 100 …
Choijamts -
Between the Geser temple and 100, there was the 1st
khoroo of Ulaanbaatar. In the area of the Geser temple, … in
front of … Lenin museum, in the area of … Yalalt cinema,
there was Agricultural college. Agricultural college had a
huge space, and to the north of Agricultural college till
Green Lake, in that wide area, there was Chinese Tsaa gazar.
They were called 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 streets and
there were only Chinese, and they were … some of them went
around and fixed houses, some of them traded, meat trade and
vegetable trade, and others clean clothes, dyed clothes and
other stuff, some of them were jewelers, some were bikers,
opened bike repair, some opened cafeteria. And some of them,
there was a Chinese commune and they had a few vehicles,
trucks, and the Chinese commune members used to go … do …
state transportation activities. They … were working like
that. And some of them were water distributors. They were in
charge of supplying ger district of Ulaanbaatar with water,
they had a horse cart, two horses, and they carried water
with them, and they lived on distributing water. And some of
them in Amgalan, had farms in northern Ulaanbaatar and hey
planted vegetables.
And then there was the 2nd khoroo. 2nd khoroo, west
from 100 gers, the road to the north, … usually … there was
Pioneer Palace, around that area … behind that there was
nothing, empty. No gers, and 2nd khoroo was there, and 2nd
khoroo was also Chinese. In Ulaanbaatar, at that period,
there were a lot of Chinese, so there were many half-Chinese
and half-Mongolians, their children were in great numbers in
School No 9; it was called Shyanzan school. And in 2nd
khoroo usually khalkhas, and further from there 4th khoroo,
100 gers, and south from 100 gers, (1:08;05) 4th khoroo,
there usually lived khalkhas, there was buriat khoroo, west
from School No 1 there was buriat khoroo. There were rich
buriats, who had cows, sold milk, so it was called buriat
khoroo. They had horse carts, sleigh, and there was 5th
khoroo. And … um … I guess it’s called 2nd maternity house,
in the east west, south from there, west from there, School
No 2, Korean Embassy, Check Embassy, Bulgarian Embassy area
was called 5th khoroo. There were School No 2 and School No
3, and there was also a ger district; even Yanjmaa used to
live in 5th khoroo. And Amgalan was separate, Ulaankhuaran
was separate, and 3rd khoroo was … west from the Sukhbaatar
square, crossroads, south from there till railroad, this was
3rd khoroo. Administration. And khoroo-administration was,
khoroo and then khorin; khorin had twenty families, so it
was called khorin. It meant the number 20, twenty … And that
was almost equal to the number of families in a bag in rural
areas, and that was a khorin. And the complete secondary
school No 3 was, complete secondary school No 1, complete
secondary school No 5 was school No 2. Then 1st micro
district had Shyanz … a school, our school, primary school
No 10, the only schools in the city center, primary school
No 4 was located at the north of teacher’s um University of
Education, in the area where Ulaanbaatar Hotel is located
now. And primary school No 4 was um the children from 4th
khoroo, 5th khoroo, the half of 4th khoroo, and the half of
1st and 2nd khoroos used to go to primary school No 4. This
is how it was like. And Amgalan. The Amgalan school was
separate. There was one school in Ulaankhuaran and it was
separate. And these were all schools in Ulaanbaatar. Few
schools. And now Ulaanbaatar has over 100, around 120-30
(1;11;00) schools. And when the number of schools has turned
into around 120, schools um most of the schools have two
shifts. The number of children has increased so much. But
when I was at school, schools used to have 250, 500 at most,
children. The classes were held in the morning and in the
afternoon the teachers worked at schools with their
children, practice with them, and help them … and they went
home at around 7 or 8 in the evening. … And the others were
at school with their children. Ulaanbaatar was such a
school. And the agricultural college joined AI … later. The
agricultural college used to prepare well and water
professionals and hydro technicians. That was the first
technical school in our country. There was a veterinary
college. From Ulaanbaatar … from narrow railroad, no, from
the railway station, from the north of railway station till
industrial district there were no residence areas. This area
was open and the Dund river was visible. Now it is not the
same. That is how it is changed.
And since I came in 1939, Ulaanbaatar power plant,
power plant 1 was expanded 3 times; power plant 2 was built,
power plant 3 was built, and power plant 4 was built. And
all these power plants were built. Power plant was actually
shut down. And now there three power plants that are active.
And even these 3 power plants barely supply Ulaanbaatar with
enough electricity. And barely supplies with heating. But at
that time, there was only one power plant, and that plant
supplied all offices and families, …and that makes me think
that Ulaanbaatar has expanded enormously.
Byambajav -
(1;13;40) 1939 was the time of Khalkh gol war. So I
assume the Russian soldiers were also engaged in expansion
process. Where did they reside …
Choijamts -
When I came to Ulaanbaatar in 1939, the 1939 war was
over. The soldiers who battled the war were discharged first
in September and October 1939. And the men recruited from
our region were being dismissed. And we, that was, there
were 9th cavalry, communications battalion, artillery
battalion, and an escadrille, and a general military school
and a general school for outpost military. And there was
Khujirbulan garrison and all these were military units
located in Ulaanbaatar. And outside the city, there were 4,
5 battalions in the western region in Arkhangai, Bulgan,
Zavkhan, Uvs, Khovd cavalry, and Uvurkhangai. In the eastern
region, there were 4 cavalries, 5th division, 6th division,
7th division and 8th division, located in Undurkhaan,
Tamsagbulag, and in Dornod aimag. In addition to those, a
part of Soviet 17th army was located in Dornod aimag in
Tamsag and Choibalsan. The most of 17th army was in
Ulaanbaatar, staring from Maakhuur hill to Ulaankhuaran, and
also … Maakhuurtolgoi, … how do you call it …
Byambajav -
Around Dambadarjaa?
Choijamts -
No. Not Dambadarjaa, there is one temple in the hill
to the east, Mamba datsan it is, isn’t it? Further from that
till Maakhuur hill, … the north section was full of Russian
military units, units of 17th army, artillery unit, tank
unit, and also infantry, a special unit in Zaisan, Zaisan
was full of Russian military units. In Tsagaankhuaran, there
was a zenith unit. Those were the Russian military units.
And behind the Ministry of Defense there is a little hill
and there was a zenith unit. Those were the Russian military
units. Generally, the Russian military units had much more
soldiers than Mongolian ones and such big was the 17th army
in Mongolia. And in 1939, we fought the 1939 war (1;17;20)
under the name Soviet and Mongolian military group. And in
1939 war, 17th army and from Mongolia 7th and 8th divisions,
5th division, and also Tamsag division took part. And 4th
and 5th cavalries that were located west from Ulaanbaatar
came to the western border and prevented from Khasag
incident, Khasag riot and to prepare for that and 4th and
5th battalions were located there in the western aimags. And
also there was a Soviet military unit located in Talyn
Khundlun, 120 kilometres north-east from Khentii aimag.
There was a Soviet military aerodrome, an aerodrome, and one
aerodrome in Bayantumen. Soviet military … that was the
military location. For some period, that was about Soviet
military. And offices had Russian advisors. It was a time to
have Russian advisors. The reason was that our people, we
almost didn’t have any people with higher education, and
aimag and soum governors were former militia, who were in
the army and became literate. In other words, Mongolian
People’s Revolutionary Army used to train intelligentsia, a
kind of university. The only place where intelligentsia was
prepared before 1939-40s was Mongolian People’s
Revolutionary Army. After being dismissed from the army,
they became aimag governors, soum governors, and bag
governors, and other positions like secretaries, they were
filling all those jobs. And the heads of various offices all
almost … almost illiterates, barely literate. And the head
of the bank, Baldugar, and union of firms Myagmarjav, all of
them were barely literates. They were just barely literate
in old Mongolian script. Knew simple calculation. … They
were just barely literate in old Mongolian script. So …
because they were the government and other officials in
Mongolia, in that case inviting Russian specialists was the
only option. (1;20;24) And when people talk about it now …
they are mistaken. In the case where there were no
professionals, in addition to bringing people who knew and
specialized people to have the jobs done also train our
people; because of these reasons, the Russian specialists
were invited here. The Russians … to become Russian
servants, the Russians didn’t come to invade … Russian
specialists and Russian soldiers didn’t come here for this
purpose. And today’s young people, democratic union people
talk about it erroneously. There were no other options at
that time, international condition, external circumstances,
even our national condition, internal circumstances gave us
no options. And it was true that there were many of them.
There were no other options. Our people, our workers, many
of them were in the countryside on horseback. So when they
came to the city and started working on machineries, they
couldn’t do it, didn’t know how to do it, so the Russians
taught them. In other words, the Russians, the Russian
people trained our working class, technical specialists, and
professional workers at that time. Since that time, the
party, government, the country took a lot of measures to
prepare trained professionals. Based on that, … around 30,
40 thousand people, maybe even more than that, professional
workers, and specialists with higher education were trained
in the Soviet Union. Also people were trained in Germany,
Check, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, … China, and
Korea. The reason to talk about it is that people say our
society was not open. People were not easily sent to
capitalist countries. But those who graduated from foreign
and domestic universities and who were going to become
language professionals were sent to England, France for
short periods, for 2-3 months to in-service and for study
tours. And regarding foreign relations, and economic
relations (1;23;13), at first we didn’t have economic
relations with countries other that the Soviet Union. And
with China, economic relations, the Chinese money-lenders
supplied us with their products and took our raw hides, gold
and other treasures in return. Disregarding this, we had
economic and trade relations only with the Soviet Union.
There was no other way. And our demand was so tiny. And our
demands were supplied fully by the Soviet Union. And after
the war, our foreign relations got developed. We had
relations with 10, over ten, eleven socialist countries. And
later economic … economic, diplomatic, political relations
began after economic relations. We started to train people.
Besides that we started to have diplomatic relations with
countries like England, France, and India. And generally, in
1989, late 80s and early 90s, we had established diplomatic
relations with … around 100, over 100, almost 100 foreign
countries. Also with such number of countries we had little
trade and economic relations and exchanged products. Knowing
all these facts, they talk about Mongolia being closed from
outside world and Mongolia was closed for outside world.
Such people exist. Especially, the people from democratic
movements publicized like this. I consider it wrong, because
I lived, worked, did with my hands, and participated in
person in all those … I know it. We had relations with such
many countries, such many students studied, … our … all of
those who speak Russian studied in the Soviet Union. People
who speak German learnt German in Germany. People who speak
Check learnt it in Ger in Czech. And also Bulgarian, Chinese
were studied in China. Korean was learnt in Korea. Japanese
was learnt in Japan. French was learnt in France. (1;25;46)
Even … if you think about it our Mongolians there are almost
no places where there are no Mongolians. In Canada. In
Southern America. In West Germany. In the whole Western
Europe. African countries. … whole Asia … Mongolians are
there. There are people in Japan. What it is resulted from,
they didn’t go there because no one was sent abroad, no one
knew about outside world. This was taught here to some
extent, people who studied abroad learnt foreign languages,
work and study abroad, … those people become agent to help
people find jobs etc. but Mongolian … it not possible to
bring people who never been abroad from the countryside and
send them out, people who studied there do all these. And
also Mongolian is taught in other countries. Having people
who speak a little English, use English to do stuff, able to
feed oneself with help of it, and use French to supply
oneself … all these have something to do with when they
learnt them , where and how they learnt them. Was Mongolia
closed, no, there is no way to say that. But simple it was
limit … limited. We didn’t train people in England. No one
was trained in France and America. People were not trained
in Japan. People were not trained in France. To talk about
it this way is different, it is a different issue. But it is
just simply a lie if you say Mongolia was completely
separate from the outside world, … and to the outside world.
That’s it.
Interviews, transcriptions and translations provided by The Oral History of Twentieth Century Mongolia, University of Cambridge. Please acknowledge the source of materials in any publications or presentations that use them.
